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Thread: Trail Signing volunteers- You CAN fix "stupid" with signs!!!!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Clinton, N.Y.
    Posts
    443

    Lightbulb Trail Signing volunteers- You CAN fix "stupid" with signs!!!!

    No longer do we have to say "you can't fix stupid with signs"
    Almost every club in the State has had issues with people who just don't or won't stay ON the Marked Trail; often this makes landowners mad, and causes trails to get shut down. Many of us read the signing book, or take a signing or STEP class, and get upset when people think it's OK to ride outside the trail markers. They may not be locals, and don't know they are riding over cropland. we put up signs, and more signs, we put up ribbons, snow fence, and still they ride off the trail (tresspassing on private property)
    SO- How do you Fix "stupid" with signs?
    A Special request from Jim Rolf, State Trails coordinator, myself, and all STEP/ signing instructors:
    When you sign your trails this season- try this: put your "Stay right" and "Keep right" on the right side, like you always do- but start using them where you probably never do- where the trail is right next to the road, a river or canal, in the woods, especially on straight rails beds, where it is obvious (and basically impossible) for riders (Prudent, experienced, or otherwise!) to ride to the right of the signs! ie: to do so would mean going through trailside buildings, heavy treed areas, into the water, or wipe out their carbides!
    This will make people realize that what the sign means is to stay on the right side of the trail, not to the right of the signs!!!
    Some people think it's OK to ride wherever they want, and wherever they see snow; they may be used to single staking, outlaw trails, or maybe they just never read a book, drove a car,or took a safety or signing class...!
    True: they may not care that they are tresspassing, jeopardizing a trail, or maybe they are just ignorant of the laws, and rules...
    So let's all try to enlighten them.
    We are supposed to sign for the prudent rider. No rider should ever encounter unexpected changes in the trail, and should be able to ride long distances and through trails signed by many different volunteers, or clubs without noticing any difference in the way the trails are signed.

    This year, Please add another thought to your signing efforts: Make it obvious to the uneducated... use the stay right/ keep rights where you never did before, and where they MUST be followed correctly. Mark Cropland "Crops planted, stay on edge of field, and STAY on Trail.

    When you get into open fields that are just vacant, with little or no obstruction, or non- agricultural; and have some nice hills, (Woops, as some of like to say) don't use as many stay right, stay on trail etc... and maybe people who feel the need to throw some powder, get a "rush", or cool their sled will start to realize that if you "Must" leave the marked trail- you better do it where you will not get hurt, or cause a landowner to shut us down.
    If we all do these things- then "Most" people will start to get the message!
    Perhaps, (and maybe I'm just dreaming here...) our lives will become a little easier. Here at TC .com, we often preach to the choir. Most of us are already involved; and therefore know what is right; and try to always be good ambassadors of our sport.
    If we all do this with our signs, and send a clear, consistent, and statewide message- maybe some of the 95%ers will figure it out!
    Thank you!
    Maybe, just maybe; we CAN Fix Stupid with signs!
    CNY SnowTravelers, member, [I]STEP Advisor, STEP Instructor. http://www.facebook.com/pages/CNY-Sn...ers-Snowmobile Club/166401330044126 Stay ON the trails - keep Right,Between the signs!
    If you have something positive to say, say it.....
    If you have some productive skills- Use them...
    If you think it can be better, help improve it....
    If all you want to do is whine, complain, and criticize...... SHUT IT!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    pulaski
    Posts
    7,044

    Default

    i thought you were going to say; beat them to a pulp with a sign!
    if i said it once, i'll say it again. what was it i said?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sayre, PA
    Posts
    1,637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by old jerry
    i thought you were going to say; beat them to a pulp with a sign!
    I like this idea OJ.
    Duane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Wayyy South Jersey or Tug Hill
    Posts
    5,704

    Default

    This sounds like a recipe for making yourself crazy...
    My idea of using Schedule 40 pipe filled with concrete as posts and razor wire to keep them in the right place would be much more effective.
    "Persistent Violator"

  5. #5
    Greg D. Guest

    Default Good luck in this quest


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cato ny
    Posts
    1,550

    Default

    I heard we where going to start using less signs.It doesn't look that way to me.
    Groomer Master
    Groomer Operator
    Trail Boss
    former President

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cato ny
    Posts
    1,550

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CNYXLTrip
    No longer do we have to say "you can't fix stupid with signs"
    Almost every club in the State has had issues with people who just don't or won't stay ON the Marked Trail; often this makes landowners mad, and causes trails to get shut down. Many of us read the signing book, or take a signing or STEP class, and get upset when people think it's OK to ride outside the trail markers. They may not be locals, and don't know they are riding over cropland. we put up signs, and more signs, we put up ribbons, snow fence, and still they ride off the trail (tresspassing on private property)
    SO- How do you Fix "stupid" with signs?
    A Special request from Jim Rolf, State Trails coordinator, myself, and all STEP/ signing instructors:
    When you sign your trails this season- try this: put your "Stay right" and "Keep right" on the right side, like you always do- but start using them where you probably never do- where the trail is right next to the road, a river or canal, in the woods, especially on straight rails beds, where it is obvious (and basically impossible) for riders (Prudent, experienced, or otherwise!) to ride to the right of the signs! ie: to do so would mean going through trailside buildings, heavy treed areas, into the water, or wipe out their carbides!
    This will make people realize that what the sign means is to stay on the right side of the trail, not to the right of the signs!!!
    Some people think it's OK to ride wherever they want, and wherever they see snow; they may be used to single staking, outlaw trails, or maybe they just never read a book, drove a car,or took a safety or signing class...!
    True: they may not care that they are tresspassing, jeopardizing a trail, or maybe they are just ignorant of the laws, and rules...
    So let's all try to enlighten them.
    We are supposed to sign for the prudent rider. No rider should ever encounter unexpected changes in the trail, and should be able to ride long distances and through trails signed by many different volunteers, or clubs without noticing any difference in the way the trails are signed.

    This year, Please add another thought to your signing efforts: Make it obvious to the uneducated... use the stay right/ keep rights where you never did before, and where they MUST be followed correctly. Mark Cropland "Crops planted, stay on edge of field, and STAY on Trail.

    When you get into open fields that are just vacant, with little or no obstruction, or non- agricultural; and have some nice hills, (Woops, as some of like to say) don't use as many stay right, stay on trail etc... and maybe people who feel the need to throw some powder, get a "rush", or cool their sled will start to realize that if you "Must" leave the marked trail- you better do it where you will not get hurt, or cause a landowner to shut us down.
    If we all do these things- then "Most" people will start to get the message!
    Perhaps, (and maybe I'm just dreaming here...) our lives will become a little easier. Here at TC .com, we often preach to the choir. Most of us are already involved; and therefore know what is right; and try to always be good ambassadors of our sport.
    If we all do this with our signs, and send a clear, consistent, and statewide message- maybe some of the 95%ers will figure it out!
    Thank you!
    Maybe, just maybe; we CAN Fix Stupid with signs!
    You can't put stay right and keep right on the same side of the trail they mean two different things.
    Groomer Master
    Groomer Operator
    Trail Boss
    former President

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    CNY
    Posts
    3,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tsnow
    I heard we where going to start using less signs.It doesn't look that way to me.
    The term "less signs" has been out there for a couple of years now. The actual words used were "less # of signs used", meaning the types of signs clubs would be purchasing might be less numerous so inventory would be less.

    Example, and I will put this out there publicly soon for discussion by clubs,... Bridge Ahead, Culvert Ahead, and Curve Ahead (and the 4 distinctive curve ahead signs too, depicted by an actual curve being shown which way and how hard) have all been discussed being replaced by a single sign like "Slow" or "Caution". So in other words, there would not be "less signs" on the trails, just less different signs with the multiple warning signs that actually point out what the upcoming change in the trail characteristic is being replaced by one sign all across the board.

    Two other signs being discussed as "not worthy of having on our trails" are the Chevron arrows and the twisty, winding woods trail sign. Again, the chevron would have an arrow in its place while the winding arrow would/should have some other warning of upcoming curves hung in its place.

    I do have the same concern about the Stay Right and Keep Right sign co-mingling mentioned above. Yes, Keep Right means "stay to the right of the sign" while Stay Right's official meaning is "stay to the right of the trails". They should NEVER be mixed, and actually the Keep Right signs have been mentioned a s also not being used at all while being replaced by the Stay Right sign to reduce confusion between the two. Volunteers and riders alike have been known to confuse them.

    And as for anyone feeling the "need" to get off the trail... I SAY WE NEVER WANT TO PROMOTE THIS. How does a rider know when its safe to take a jaunt outside the posts that club volunteers installed? How do they know if the might be a rock or other hidden hazard 30 feet (or 10 feet) off the safe marked trail? The message we all need to send is... STAY ON THE MARKED TRAIL!
    Stay Right and BETWEEN the Stakes!!

    Join a club WHEREVER you ride!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Parish
    Posts
    749

    Default

    STAY ON THE MARKED TRAIL!

    This sign is a lot easier to understand than 'Ride Right / Stay Right' in my opinion. No confusion and right to the point.
    Without Yamaha I would have no reason to groom
    Proud drinker of Doolaid
    Kasoag Trailblazers

  10. #10
    JAGZ Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juiced10
    STAY ON THE MARKED TRAIL!

    This sign is a lot easier to understand than 'Ride Right / Stay Right' in my opinion. No confusion and right to the point.

    I Whole heartily agree, but tell that to the BMW's!

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