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Thread: New York State Snowmobile Signing Handbook

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default New York State Snowmobile Signing Handbook

    Was on parks site today and see the New Signing Handbook is FINNALLY out. Go take a look. What do you think?


    https://parks.ny.gov/recreation/snow...gnHandbook.pdf

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    5,936

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    There's some real craftsmanship in the wording of these "guidelines".

    I do like the section about overuse of signs.

    Whats the standard color for informational and business signs?

    What's the coefficient of friction between the track and snow on any given trail at any given time?

    I'm curious to what good it does to put a corridor/secondary trail sign 500' up the trail. Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it OPRHP? Shouldn't it far closer and not where the stop ahead sign is? Remind me again how long this took devise these guidelines? And why is it neccessary to use these trails signs immediately after a bridge/culvert?

    I also see no reference how to terminate a divided trail. That's kind of important isn't it OPRHP?

    I grade this a D+ at best. It kind of disappointing to wait this long for this incomplete mess.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    CNY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roady View Post
    There's some real craftsmanship in the wording of these "guidelines".

    I do like the section about overuse of signs.

    Whats the standard color for informational and business signs? And how will businesses know? The Trails Committee asked that to be removed.

    What's the coefficient of friction between the track and snow on any given trail at any given time? LOL. That's the Groomer Op class, correct?

    I'm curious to what good it does to put a corridor/secondary trail sign 500' up the trail. Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it OPRHP? Shouldn't it far closer and not where the stop ahead sign is? Remind me again how long this took devise these guidelines? And why is it neccessary to use these trails signs immediately after a bridge/culvert? The Trails Committee pointed out the unnecessary dual illustrations, including the trail ID # signs in the one. No need for that. Trail Junction signs could have the Trail ID # signs on them, pointing in the correct direction or at least on the post or tree across from the Stop sign post. You are correct, and most clubs do it that way now. Most clubs also don;t place their Stop Ahead signs 500' down the trail either, as that's a considerable distance in most situations except open fields.

    I also see no reference how to terminate a divided trail. That's kind of important isn't it OPRHP? They did not want to put the "arrow up/down" sign in the book. Most clubs don't use that sign now, and those that do show that many are using it incorrectly. A perfect reason to define the sign and show everyone what it means! Also, the Trails Committee recommended that the Object marker on the right post not be there, but instead have the actual situaiton warning sign there (examples: Blind Hill or Divided Trail). There may not be an actual hazard to the right, so why sign it as such?

    I grade this a D+ at best. It kind of disappointing to wait this long for this incomplete mess.
    As for a grade, I think it is better than what we had (especially curve warning signs being included, except for how they are shown in the book) and in regards to arrows now being placed at the apex of curves (straight arrows, chevrons, or Apex Arrow signs as most clubs already did). And definitely much better than the IASA signing guidelines that Parks wanted to go with. Not perfect, by any means, but better.
    It does state that these are "minimum guidelines" (which was never stated prior) and the words "double staking" was used as the only method acceptable (also never stated in that manner prior).
    IMO, I don't like any of the curve signing illustrations. Illustration 12 should not be there, and the SLOW signs in Illustration 13 should be replaced by the Curve Ahead Warning Signs shown in Illustration 12. Illustration 14 is showing a one-way trail as it depicts using Chevrons to indicate a continuous curve.

    Again, IMO better...but could it have been even more clarifying? Yes!
    Stay Right and BETWEEN the Stakes!!

    Join a club WHEREVER you ride!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Fabius, North Redfield
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    No clarification as to just what a junction is, they say how to sign one but there are many junctions here in NY without ANY form of idenification or just have signs saying junction ahead, stop ahead and stops but no junction number or trail numbers, what is the difference?
    Lafayette Trail Riders
    Snow Valley Riders
    Tully Trail Blazers
    Redfield Snowmobile Association

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,486

    Default local trails?

    Quote Originally Posted by sprocket View Post
    No clarification as to just what a junction is, they say how to sign one but there are many junctions here in NY without ANY form of idenification or just have signs saying junction ahead, stop ahead and stops but no junction number or trail numbers, what is the difference?
    Maybe the difference is local trail junction (with another local club trail or state funded trail).
    State doesn't acknowledge local trails and assign Junction ID's. Never liked that.
    Maybe something about that should be in the signing handbook?

    State still "requires" those trails to be GPS'd though dont they?
    ... or maybe they don't

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